USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

WIP, finished kits and other 1/1000 discussion.
User avatar
Griffworks
Can-Do Captain
Can-Do Captain
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Boundaries of Imagination

USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Griffworks » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:40 am

Yep. Just when you thought I was dead and buried, I'm baaaackkk…! :D

Here's my version of the Enterprise-B. I've never really been a fan of all of the details that were added to make the E-B stand out more in ST:GEN than just an Excelsior. It just bugged me. Mostly, the impulse engines on the outboard aft section of the primary hull. One of those "WTF?!?" kinda things to my thinking. One of the MSD's shows them labeled as shuttle bays, which I like better than impulse engines, but even that doesn't really pass the common sense test, IMNSHO, given how close they are to the front of the warp nacelles.

So, here's how I think she prolly would have looked better. As with all things in life, YMMV. Build your vision the way you want and I'll most likely support you on it, 'cause it just looks fugly in it's "real world" configuration to me.

Obligatory album link.

One of the first things I did was to take a note from Todd Guenther's Ingram-class starship. It was based off of very early, and not terribly clear pics of the Excelsior, seen first in ST:III. I decided to give it a bit more character by adding a B/C deck area to the top of the primary hull. My initial work was too tall and just looked wrong.

Image

So, I sanded it with various grades of sand paper, as well as worked out the sides to make a slightly concave "trench" similar to that on the Refit's B/C deck area.


Image

Here's the end result. Yes, it's still rough, and yes there's an overabundance of putty on the side of the bridge, which is a casting of an Abbe-class bridge I made for personal use.

Another thing I didn't like was the cargo doors/shuttle bay on the upper aft secondary hull's fantail. It's too short for a short and still a somewhat tight space for a WorkBee train to bring in cargo. Safety first, right?!? So, I decided to once again borrow from Todd Guenther's works and added an Ingram-class shuttle bay, purchased off of Shapeways. I modified it to mostly fit into the same space as on the original Excelsior design. This makes it a full-sized shuttle bay larger than that of the Refit, plus gives it closing doors and allows for the larger Type II dockport shuttlecraft used on the Vulcan shuttle in ST:TMP to fit inside.

Image

Image
While I maybe should've lowered the overall height of the aft upper shuttlebay by maybe 5mm or so, I don't think it looks horribly out of place. Plus, you could have one layer of storage racks like the JJ-prise has from ST (2009) in which to stow the standard shuttlecraft. ;)

I also decided to replace the stock neck, using one of Aptivaboy's Excelsior alternate necks (#3).
Image

More to come!

Again, here's the obligatory album link. Lots more pics there!

.
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.“

My Flickr Albums

User avatar
Griffworks
Can-Do Captain
Can-Do Captain
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Boundaries of Imagination

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Griffworks » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:41 am

Another thing I decided to do was to show the lower secondary hull "shuttlebay" open.

Image

Image
Initially, I thought to have just one of the doors - 'cause that's what they looked like to me - open.

Image
Eventually, I decided to go with both doors open.

Image
Playing around with getting an idea of the size to work with.

Image
One of the things I decided to do was to give it two interior doors. One is in the same deck bulkhead area, going forward. The other opens above the shuttle bay deck and allows an alternate route for craft to egress or enter the shuttle bay.

Image
Working on the ceiling door.

Image
And now she's got actual doors.


Obligatory album link.


More to come!

.
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.“

My Flickr Albums

User avatar
Tesral
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:58 pm
Location: Dearborn, Mi -- at my desk.
Contact:

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Tesral » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:18 am

Griffworks wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:40 am
Yep. Just when you thought I was dead and buried, I'm baaaackkk…! :D

So, here's how I think she prolly would have looked better. As with all things in life, YMMV. Build your vision the way you want and I'll most likely support you on it, 'cause it just looks fugly in it's "real world" configuration to me.

One of the first things I did was to take a note from Todd Guenther's Ingram-class starship. It was based off of very early, and not terribly clear pics of the Excelsior, seen first in ST:III. I decided to give it a bit more character by adding a B/C deck area to the top of the primary hull. My initial work was too tall and just looked wrong.

Another thing I didn't like was the cargo doors/shuttle bay on the upper aft secondary hull's fantail. It's too short for a short and still a somewhat tight space for a WorkBee train to bring in cargo. Safety first, right?!? So, I decided to once again borrow from Todd Guenther's works and added an Ingram-class shuttle bay, purchased off of Shapeways. I modified it to mostly fit into the same space as on the original Excelsior design. This makes it a full-sized shuttle bay larger than that of the Refit, plus gives it closing doors and allows for the larger Type II dockport shuttlecraft used on the Vulcan shuttle in ST:TMP to fit inside.

The alternative neck is interesting. the other two where things I noticed wrong as well. My personal theory is that the Excelsior was suppose to be a much larger ship and they rescaled it after the model was built. (Trek never does that!) So the bridge and shuttle bays are too small.

I personally do not like the lower...thingy...as a shuttle bay, how much shuttle bay does one ship need? I would end up slapping a door over it and make it vanish. I also don't like how thin the secondary hull is, or the lumps and bumps that causes. I mocked up this to get around that.
1mppExcelsior-proposal.png
1mppExcelsior-proposal.png (10.6 KiB) Viewed 576 times
Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
"I saw it done on Voyager" is no excuse for anything, even breathing.

SKO
Charismatic Commander
Charismatic Commander
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 1:38 am

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by SKO » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:02 pm

I always really liked the Enterprise B. Probably my second favorite Enterprise after the E-E. *Ducks*

User avatar
trekriffic
Can-Do Captain (CW)
Can-Do Captain (CW)
Posts: 1930
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:16 pm

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by trekriffic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Kudos to you Jeff for opening up the shuttle bay. Personally though I always thought of it as more of a cargo bay but it works either way.
"You broke your little ships."

My albums on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/29607470@N08/sets/

User avatar
Cubey Terra
Can-Do Captain (CW)
Can-Do Captain (CW)
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 7:09 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Cubey Terra » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:39 pm

Tesral wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:18 am


The alternative neck is interesting. the other two where things I noticed wrong as well. My personal theory is that the Excelsior was suppose to be a much larger ship and they rescaled it after the model was built. (Trek never does that!) So the bridge and shuttle bays are too small.

I personally do not like the lower...thingy...as a shuttle bay, how much shuttle bay does one ship need? I would end up slapping a door over it and make it vanish. I also don't like how thin the secondary hull is, or the lumps and bumps that causes. I mocked up this to get around that.
1mppExcelsior-proposal.png
I'm with you on that. That cavernous space inside the secondary hull is a bizarre waste of hull space, and the lump that the nacelles attach to is very odd.

On the Ent-B, where is the warp core (or transwarp core?) meant to be? Weird use of space.

That's why closing up the secondary hull is a great idea that preserves the sense of scale and the basic usefulness of the hull.

WarpNein
Legendary LT Commander
Legendary LT Commander
Posts: 243
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:58 am

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by WarpNein » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:46 am

Ooh, I'm going to be watching this.

The Excelsior is a troublesome design. There are few designs that look great from every angle (like the Refit does), but the Excelsior seems to exacerbate these problems. The Excelsior looks great from some angles, mostly three-quarter views, and them from others (mostly orthographic views) it looks almost gangly. I have particular issues with the top views of the ship. The saucer is too small for its overall length, and the nacelles are really thin. That's why I actually prefer the Enterprise-B to the original Excelsior, because the addition of impulse engines and visible bussard collectors beef up at least two of the elements that always struck me as too small for the original Excelsior to have completely satisfying proportions.

holt35
Legendary LT Commander
Legendary LT Commander
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by holt35 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:36 pm

I like what I'm seeing here! Love the Excelsior class and it's variant design, so I like seeing builds of them.

User avatar
Griffworks
Can-Do Captain
Can-Do Captain
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Boundaries of Imagination

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Griffworks » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:43 pm

Sorry that' it's been so long since I updated this thread, as well. I've started losing track of what/where I've posted sometimes, as well as just run out of time for doing the same, obviously.
Tesral wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:18 am
The alternative neck is interesting. the other two where things I noticed wrong as well. My personal theory is that the Excelsior was suppose to be a much larger ship and they rescaled it after the model was built. (Trek never does that!) So the bridge and shuttle bays are too small.

I personally do not like the lower...thingy...as a shuttle bay, how much shuttle bay does one ship need? I would end up slapping a door over it and make it vanish. I also don't like how thin the secondary hull is, or the lumps and bumps that causes. I mocked up this to get around that.
I'm sure you're right about the re-scaling of the studio model. I would imagine it was larger by maybe 50m to 100m in the minds of the developer and/or VFX folks for ST:III when production was being done, and likely was a hold over to ST:IV, where Excelsior isn't given any new screen time to speak of. In fact, given how large Hood was in the TNG Pilot ("Encounter at Farpoint") when seen next to the E-D, I would imagine it was STILL not fully worked out how big the ship really was meant to be, and likely stayed that way until ST:VI came about.

On a future build, which I had originally thought to do with this one, I'll make a thicker (top-to-bottom) hull, adding what I figure is close to a full deck's height in sheet stock. The on-screen versions of Excelsior and Enterprise-B that I'll build will both be built pretty much "as-is" where on-screen presence is concerned. I intend to build at least one more Excelsior, as well as an Ingram-class derivative that will both have at least one added deck height on the secondary hull, as well as I'll do my best to extend the length of the secondary hull, likely by adding sheet stock. It won't be more than prolly an additional 10m scale length, but I'm going to give it a shot, as I feel it'll be visually apparent.

Regardless, those builds are all a ways down the road.
SKO wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:02 pm
I always really liked the Enterprise B. Probably my second favorite Enterprise after the E-E. *Ducks*
It's all good. As I said, there are things I liked, but there are a lot of things I also didn't like.

And the E-E is one of my favorite designs. :)
trekriffic wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:43 pm
Kudos to you Jeff for opening up the shuttle bay. Personally though I always thought of it as more of a cargo bay but it works either way.
Thanks! One of the MSD's has a call out showing the fantail bay listed as a cargo bay. I dunno how much sense that makes, but it makes more sense, given the scale, than it being a shuttle bay. That door is barely tall enough for a shuttle to get thru, unless it comes in at roughly a 45degree angle to the deck. Then it has plenty of room!

Regardless, the lower bay works better for a large shuttle bay, IMNSHO, which would allow larger than StarFleet standard shuttle craft to enter and/or dock. Plus, it would still have plenty of room to temporarily stow cargo trains or individual pods for temp storage. For instance, if an Excelsior were transporting special cargo to another Starbase, starship, or space station to allow quick access and removal, versus it being stowed internally at the main cargo storage decks.

One option that I've considered, tho, is to scribe - or even re-scribe - the fantail doors to go all the way to the "deck", instead of them ending just above the deck area. That would give the sufficient additional space for a shuttle to more safely clear the door aperture. I might even do that on the "straight" builds I'll do for Excelsior and Enterprise-B, as sort of my way as "claiming" them as my own build, so to speak.
Cubey Terra wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:39 pm
I'm with you on that. That cavernous space inside the secondary hull is a bizarre waste of hull space, and the lump that the nacelles attach to is very odd.
>SNIP!<
I immediately assumed that the "lump" is main engineering, back when first viewed in ST:III. Even then, when I was like 16, I was trying to figure out the internals. It's certainly got plenty of space equivalent to that of the Refit's main engineering spaces. Plus prolly a little extra.
On the Ent-B, where is the warp core (or transwarp core?) meant to be? Weird use of space.
>SNIPPAGE!<
I always figured it was in a similar spot to that of the Refit - directly underneath the impulse deflection crystal(s). With the later versions of Excelsior-class ships we saw, tho, there are two warp cores. They would likely have ejection hatches that end in the top of the nav deflector "trench" on the regular Excelsior secondary hulls, possibly similarly in the refit Excelsior's (like the E-B). Maybe they eject straight up?

:shrug: I dunno. It's all up in the air.
That's why closing up the secondary hull is a great idea that preserves the sense of scale and the basic usefulness of the hull.
And I've no issue with that, either, tho I'd have there be a large hangar door there, instead of just closing up the hull. That way you can still store/dock slightly larger than standard shuttlecraft or similar small craft. Especially given how small the fantail hangar doors are! :o
WarpNein wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:46 am
Ooh, I'm going to be watching this.

The Excelsior is a troublesome design. There are few designs that look great from every angle (like the Refit does), but the Excelsior seems to exacerbate these problems. The Excelsior looks great from some angles, mostly three-quarter views, and them from others (mostly orthographic views) it looks almost gangly. I have particular issues with the top views of the ship. The saucer is too small for its overall length, and the nacelles are really thin. That's why I actually prefer the Enterprise-B to the original Excelsior, because the addition of impulse engines and visible bussard collectors beef up at least two of the elements that always struck me as too small for the original Excelsior to have completely satisfying proportions.
I don't particularly have an issue with the saucer diameter, tho agree it would be nice if it were a bit wider. It wouldn't take much of a larger diameter to make me happier, which I feel even just an additional scale 5m to 10m would do it for me.

I still can't really stomach the larger outboard mounted impulse engines, tho. It just bugs me. Especially since they kept the standard impulse vents/engines where they originally were. That and how the outboard impulse vents are practically right on top of the Bussard collectors that they added. I think they added those outboard impulse engines to try and show a relation to the E-D.

The ONLY thing I don't like about the Bussard's they added are that they're BLUE!!! I mean, seriously! I can't immediately think of ANY other Star Fleet ship, in any of the Prime Timeline shows that every showed us a blue Bussard collector. They're all red/organge.

Gaaaah! :evil:
holt35 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:36 pm
I like what I'm seeing here! Love the Excelsior class and it's variant design, so I like seeing builds of them.
Thanks. I think the Excelsior design is my fourth favorite design, with the first being the Refit. I'm just a huge fan of the TMP Era designs, so that's a primary reason for it.



Ok, so here's an update on this one....

I had thought to really fill out the lower shuttle bay more than I did, tho didn't end up doing so. I did end up placing a strip of styrene along the center line of the lower part of the oversized bay, as well as place two shaped strips on each side where the sponson's on the outer hull would have shown as open space on the inside of that bay. I also added a bulkhead "behind" the fore section of the drop-in part, as it allows for space at the bottom of that part which would otherwise indicate even more wasted space in the secondary hull.

I also hand-drilled two docking ports on the interior "forward" bulkhead drop-in part. I then added a single Type 3 dockport shuttle to the port side and left the starboard side "open" for another craft to dock, if needed. I had also considered added some cargo module trains to the "ribbing" (for her pleasure!) on the lower interior of the lower shuttle bay. I might still do so, but didn't end up adding it before sealing up the parts. I also added a small strip of strip stock to the forward bulkhead under the docking ports, meant to be where I might dock a cargo train, with the strips represent where these could be docked temporarily for access to the contents of the cargo containers. I do intend to add at least one to each side, tho might go with two on the starboard to visually "balance it" from the starboard side.

EntB-047.JPG
Getting back to the smaller open shuttle bay, I did a fairly crude job of painting stripes on the deck. I used Testors Flat Yellow Zinc Chromate (1184} for the strips after painting the deck with a color - of which I forget the exact designation. I also thought it was a bit cleaner than it turned out, once that lousy camera gave me a really good glimps in there! :oops:

EntB-115.JPG
EntB-115.JPG (71.54 KiB) Viewed 268 times
A slightly better view of the interior of the lower shuttle bay area. Note the dockport shuttle on the left (port) side of the bay, as well as the strip underneath of it. You can also see where I painted the upper bay door in the ceiling yellow zinc chromate.

EntB-117.JPG
Giving a slightly better view of the full interior, as well as the forward bay door, also painted yellow zinc chromate. You can also see the third shuttle in there, behind the Type 5 and a WorkBee with cargo train. That's one of the shuttles from UGH! Models Lynch-class light destroyer, which I call a Type 1 shuttle. It's similar in shape to the Type II and Type III dockport shuttles, tho slightly smaller and also with no dockport.

I also realize that it doesn't look like the additional bulkhead I added to close off the large bay is there - it's just in shadow. You can make out the sheet stock I added to close off interior of the sponsons from the rest of the bay area.

More to come.

.
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.“

My Flickr Albums

User avatar
Griffworks
Can-Do Captain
Can-Do Captain
Posts: 853
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:57 am
Location: Boundaries of Imagination

Re: USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-B - My version, anyhow....

Post by Griffworks » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:53 pm

A few more pics of my butchering of an Enterprise-B!

Been feeling like crap the last three days now, up most of the night last night sick to my stomach, so not much been going on, work-wise for my models. So, nothing new to show, tho if you've cheated and looked ahead, you've prolly already seen these pics.

Obligatory Flickr album link.
EntB-038.JPG
Showing the size of the original Ingram-class shuttle bay part, versus the chop-job that I did to another.

EntB-032.JPG
I also never really liked how the fantail ended so sharply with a pseudo-arrowhead look. So, I decided to "fix" that, as well. I built it up a bit with putty, backed the interior a thin layer of putty, then preceded sand-to-round the shape of that area. I like it much More Gooder than the original. It's kewel if you don't like it. You're wrong, tho.... j/k ;)

EntB-040.JPG
While waiting on putty, primer, and glue to dry, I got to sorta playing around with nacelle configurations. One of those I tried was similar to what is seen in the Ingram-Class Blueprint set, wherein a much shorter nacelle type is shown. I kinda like it, and kinda don't. Prolly won't revisit that for a build, regardless.


Another thing that I never really liked about the Excelsior design was the impulse engine vents. They look small, and scrawny. Yes, I realize that this doesn't mean that the impulse engines themselves are scrawny/underpowered, it's an aesthetics issue for my own tastes. So, I decided to "fix" that, too, by make them shorter aft, while making them larger from top-to-bottom.

EntB-059.JPG
Side-by-side showing how much shorter my mod - on the right - is compared to a not-quite-stock upper Excelsior primary hull. I cut roughly 1.4" / 5mm off the backend.
EntB-060.JPG
EntB-061.JPG
Since I now had a large open area that needed to be filled, I used some scratch Evergreen stock that I cut to shape, then started placing it as a "backer" for that area. The intent being to add some Evergreen V-groove to act as the impulse vents.



More to come!

.
“And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.“

My Flickr Albums

Post Reply

Return to “1/1000”