Enterprise Phase Pistol

Costumes, Everyday Wear, Jewelry and Props.
User avatar
Cullenszoo
Legendary LT Commander
Legendary LT Commander
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:47 am
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Cullenszoo » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:45 am

Dangit! I can't access RPF for the next few days due to their maintenance. I do want to read their article. I met the folks from arsenal, well the couple, at a local con. I know they do several castings by making a mockup of the prop like the prop maker would do, then they cast it. There may be somethings they recast but just about everything of theirs is different from other castings I've seen out there. Their BSG original blaster and ST assault phaser were completely different from other castings I've had. I'm pretty sure they are guilty of casting copies of playmates toys. I doubt they would admit if they were copying others work but the story I got was they bought a guy out and got all his molds. then they started making their own props and casting them.
They have been at it so long surely if they were too shady they would have been popped by now.
I just wish they would be more careful with their casting and avoid all the bubbles. it makes building the kit a pain in the arse.
Building hand painted dust collectors since 1977

User avatar
Shark
Charismatic Commander
Charismatic Commander
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Shark » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:32 pm

They have been at it so long surely if they were too shady they would have been popped by now.
At it so long according to whom? How long is too long to be recasting? Is recasting one persons kit okay or does it only become shady when it's done to multiple kits? Rhetorical questions, of course; I know the answers for myself. Obviously they're well known enough to have multiple threads on the RPF devoted to their activities, that alone sounds like a good enough popping to me. Read the thread on the RPF when you can, if you're still intent upon supporting them then please say as much, that way I'll know not to sell any kits to you.

User avatar
Del
Starship Engineer
Starship Engineer
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Del » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:13 pm

...
Last edited by Del on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Multi-Verse Models - http://www.mvmodels.biz or find me on Facebook
Retail sales of kits from Design Anomaly, Kessel Run Kits, NorthTrek Creations, Alternate Paradigms, and more!

User avatar
Moongrim
Fatidical Fleet Admiral (CW)
Fatidical Fleet Admiral (CW)
Posts: 4962
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:36 pm
Location: West of Eugene Oregon.

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Moongrim » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:51 pm

Well yeah, if they bought someone else's molds, then technically it's not a recast. My impression of a recaster is someone who purchases someone else's kit, makes a casting from those parts and then sells such as their own. Sort of like the way map makers introduce impossible streets onto their maps to catch re-copiers.

I'm assuming of course, that those who have copied a mainstream kit like something from Polar Lights, so that they could create their own Conversion kit, is separate from the above recaster. I.E., they've worked something out with PL/R2.

But if someone sells something with one or two bubbles, that's to be expected. But more than that, and I have to assume it's a fly by night operation.
There are Times, Sir, when men of good Conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but ignore their personal liberties and freedoms. Order a man to hand over his child to the state? Not while I"m captain.
- J.L.Picard.

User avatar
Cullenszoo
Legendary LT Commander
Legendary LT Commander
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:47 am
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Cullenszoo » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:54 pm

Let me clear the air Shark since you seem a bit hostile.

I can't say I have a problem with them making casts of toys like the phaser. I can't say it bothers me for them to use molds they bought.

I haven't read the RPF articles to know who they have offended but apparently they have stepped on some toes.

By being popped I refer to selling a non-licensed product using trademarked items.

As for recasting someones hard work so they can sell it I can't agree with. If someone is creating a part or a kit and they personally craft the item I don't feel its right for someone to come along and recast it. Personally I've never done any casting. I'm more of a kit builder. That said, should I ever start to cast anything it would solely be for me to create a backup.

I can appreciate your position but each situation and person should be looked at individually. If you don't want to sell to me that's your choice. you obviously feel passionate about the subject.
Building hand painted dust collectors since 1977

Lonewolf
Crafty Commodore
Crafty Commodore
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:06 pm
Location: Up to my eyebrows in unbuilt models!
Contact:

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Lonewolf » Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:52 am

I know of a couple of folks on eBay who have a reputation as being recasters, and it is well-deserved because they HAVE been active in the recast market. But those same folks have also paid for masters as commissioned work for original pieces. However, because they are know as recasters, folks are less willing to buy from them even though some items are original pieces. But once a recaster, always a recaster for some folks.
Check out the Sci-Fi Model Kit Directory - A searchable resource with kit reviews and information on how to find the kit you're looking for! Visit http://www.sfmkd.com today!

User avatar
Shark
Charismatic Commander
Charismatic Commander
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:35 pm

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Shark » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:53 am

Let me clear the air Shark since you seem a bit hostile.


Hostile? Not at all, just a bit suspicious of those that would make excuses for recasters. Read up on these guys and you'll see why.
I can't say it bothers me for them to use molds they bought.


You assume they bought those molds. Remember, this is their story; it's not like they'd come out and tell you if they recast other people's work.
I haven't read the RPF articles to know who they have offended but apparently they have stepped on some toes.]


Recasting is offensive to the hobby as a whole, not just to the directly affected parties. Read the multiple threads devoted to Arsenal/cool models. Inform yourself. It's not just one person making these accusations, it's multiple people, again and again. And people being ripped off again and again.

http://www.therpf.com/f9/arsenal-models ... ot-112358/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/coolmodels-...casting-71457/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/does-coolmo...y-names-29196/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/arsenal-mod...y-good-134692/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/arsenal-mod...rs-not-112358/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/dragoncon-m...-models-95027/

http://www.therpf.com/f9/arsenal-models-51855/
By being popped I refer to selling a non-licensed product using trademarked items


Not the issue. The issue is the copying of others' work and how detrimental it is to kit-makers and the hobby as a whole.
As for recasting someones hard work so they can sell it I can't agree with. If someone is creating a part or a kit and they personally craft the item I don't feel its right for someone to come along and recast it. Personally I've never done any casting. I'm more of a kit builder. That said, should I ever start to cast anything it would solely be for me to create a backup


So you understand the precept, that's good. I'm sure you also understand the need for all of us to reject recasters and to not support recasting, in any form. I'm sure you also understand the need for us to not make excuses for such behavior either and to do the proper research before we buy. I'm sure you can also understand the detriment that this activity has on the hobby and why it is important to do research before wasting your money on knock-off garbage.
I can appreciate your position but each situation and person should be looked at individually. If you don't want to sell to me that's your choice. you obviously feel passionate about the subject
We should all feel as passionately about this subject, as it affects us all.

You've stated that you're more of a builder; as such, It may not be entirely clear the cost involved in bringing some of these subjects to market. Hundreds of dollars - in some cases, multiple thousands. For one kit. Now imagine that you've just put up hundreds of your own hard earned dollars to bring a kit to the community, not for profit (Because you'd be lucky to break even); but because you love the subject and want to offer that for others to enjoy. Now imagine that one of your customers (Of which there may be many) has copied your work and is selling a bastardized, half-assed version of what you spent hundreds of dollars producing for half the price of your kit. And people buy it! That may make you a bit reluctant to bring another kit to market, wouldn't it? We all suffer when someones work is stolen.

You say you weren't aware that Arsenal/Cool models are recasters; okay, I'll believe you. We all get taken sometimes, these guys are prolific and they're obviously good at lying. But you must understand how it looks when you make excuses for people who are known throughout the community as being recasters, without even bothering to read up on the subject when the information is presented to you. To someone like me whose read it all, it makes you seem a bit suspicious. I'm sure you can appreciate that.

Please, do the research, read the threads and make an informed decision. It's not just better for kit makers, it's better for you.

If anyone reading this wants the contact info of some real Trek prop makers, PM me. There are plenty of them out there who not only care about the product they produce, but care about customer satisfaction as well.

User avatar
Cullenszoo
Legendary LT Commander
Legendary LT Commander
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:47 am
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Cullenszoo » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:51 am

Thank you Shark, seriously. being relatively new to this community as well as modeling forums I couldn't appreciate the level of damage done by someone who would recast another's work. I can't say that I could ever excuse that but in my defense I only met these folks at cons and they seemed pleasant enough. I haven't been involved with any peer groups who could have given me any insight until now.
I can completely understand what your saying and I admit I been a bit biased with the idea of recasting in the past. Mostly because how touchy casters can be about recasting something. Several years ago I bought a resin kit "The Vampires Kiss" off ebay. it might have been a recast of the original but was very high quality. I talked to a buddy of mine in the casting trade and asked if he could copy some parts for me that were very brittle and I was afraid I might brake them. he instantly got an attitude and pronounced he didn't cast other peoples work. I understood what he meant and wasn't asking him to reproduce the whole kit just the wings. that didn't sway him so please forgive me if I seem to have a cavalier attitude on the subject. As I predicted the wings broke in and to this day the kit is unfinished in a box.
I will be reading up on them thanks to your research. I much appreciate that.
Since prior to this thread we knew nothing about each other, I have learned a great deal about you. So, let me let you know what kinda guy I am.
Should I run into these folks at a con again armed with the knowledge they have stolen someones work I wouldn't think twice about standing in the middle of their booth while it's nice and busy making statements like "Hey, didn't so and so make this?" and "I wouldn't want to own that kit when the lawsuit get's filed." note my profile where it says I'm from TN. some times my neck is known to get a little red!
As a musician and composer I am keenly aware of how damaging people who copy your work can be. I am passionate about artists retaining their creative and intellectual rights and being compensated for them.
Building hand painted dust collectors since 1977

User avatar
Moongrim
Fatidical Fleet Admiral (CW)
Fatidical Fleet Admiral (CW)
Posts: 4962
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:36 pm
Location: West of Eugene Oregon.

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Moongrim » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:13 pm

I too am learning.

I can understand the desire to recast a part or two, if at anything else, a way to replace a part that came missing in one kit, purchase another kit, and recast from that in order to get a full kit. Particularly if model kit maker has promised to send you the missing part, for months- and still hasn't gotten you the part.

Not gonna name names. I extend the benefit of the doubt.
There are Times, Sir, when men of good Conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but ignore their personal liberties and freedoms. Order a man to hand over his child to the state? Not while I"m captain.
- J.L.Picard.

Lonewolf
Crafty Commodore
Crafty Commodore
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:06 pm
Location: Up to my eyebrows in unbuilt models!
Contact:

Re: Enterprise Phase Pistol

Post by Lonewolf » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:38 am

Fine Scale Modeler has had feature articles showing how to make copies of parts for your own use. If you want to improve a kit part but have to use the kit part as the basis for the improvement, or you need copies of the part for a project that you are working on, it's generally held to NOT be recasting as long as it's just for your own personal use. If you need one part from a $30 model kit, and it's the only part you need (you already own the kit, but need duplicates), it doesn't make financial sense to buy an entire kit for one part. And if it's an OOP kit (Out of Production) that has a high cost, it's even more of an issue. Once you make that copy available to folks for a fee, however, then you've crossed the line.
Cullenszoo wrote:Should I run into these folks at a con again armed with the knowledge they have stolen someones work I wouldn't think twice about standing in the middle of their booth while it's nice and busy making statements like "Hey, didn't so and so make this?" and "I wouldn't want to own that kit when the lawsuit get's filed." note my profile where it says I'm from TN. some times my neck is known to get a little red!
That might not be a good idea, in the middle of a convention, and it might end up with you being kicked out of the event. If it's something that Arsenal, for example, paid to have mastered and now somebody else is copying their kit, you're guilty of slander and could be subject to a lawsuit yourself.

WonderFest, for example, has a strict policy regarding recasting. BUT . . . . you have to have proof in your hands, not just "I heard that somebody else made this" hearsay. It has to be the authorized manufacturer of the part/kit/item that raises the issue with the convention personnel. John Q. Public has no legal standing to make such a claim. If you think that someone is a recaster, and you recognize an item on someone else's table, your best course of action would be to contact the original manufacturer.

It only applies to where they have control . . . . the Dealer's Room at the show. Here's their policy:

http://www.wonderfest.com/index.php/for ... ng-recasts

Also, it might very well be that the kit was being closed out by Manufacturer A, and Arsenal bought out the remaining stock and is selling the items. You really have no way of knowing. Also, it might be something that's in the public domain and ANYBODY can make the kit.

One example that's realistic would be concerning our very own Del (love ya, my friend, but you're a great illustration here). Del purchased the masters to the Fon Tutor model, and has made changes. He now owns the kit, and is legally entitled to produce it. If, however, someone at WonderFest sees that Federation Models is selling off their remaining Fon Tutor kits, and then sees that Del has them for sale as well, the uninformed individual could go back to Federation Models and raise a stink about Del being a recaster when he is, in fact, the true owner and only authorized dealer for the Fon Tutor kit. John Q. Public doesn't know about the sale/purchase of the masters. He only knows that the (apparently) same resin kit is available on two tables, and it can't be Federation Models that's doing something wrong because everybody knows who they are. So it must be this upstart company that nobody knows from a hole in the wall that's guilty of recasting. Upon investigation, it's found that 1) Federation Models is getting rid of unsold stock, and 2) that Del is the only "authorized" dealer for the kit because he owns the master. But because somebody made unfounded accusations, Del's name and "recaster" are now linked in the minds of potential customers. It's completely false, but because somebody overheard it at the convention, it's gotta be true, right?

Sorry to go into such a long post. I'm a paralegal, and it's a very, very fine line between a truthful statement about stealing someone else's work and slander.
Check out the Sci-Fi Model Kit Directory - A searchable resource with kit reviews and information on how to find the kit you're looking for! Visit http://www.sfmkd.com today!

Post Reply

Return to “Clothing and Accessories”