Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

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trekriffic
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby trekriffic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:20 pm

Moongrim wrote:As I recall in the Orion Nebula- The Enterprise and the Reliant couldn't use shields.
Thus if the enemies decided to try and lure the Abaddon into a similar Nebula...


Interesting... so let's play around with that idea. The Klingons stage a fake distress call inside the Orion Nebula and the Abaddon responds. Once inside, the Klingons attack with a task force of ten ships including a new dreadnought equipped with an anti-proton beam. If they are lucky, their first shot hits a vital area and the Abaddon is destroyed; although, with so much redundancy built into her systems it seems unlikely that one shot would be sufficient to destroy her. So assuming she is not obliterated, my first reaction if I was Tattenen would be to cloak and get the hell out of there. If escape was not possible, say a nacelle was damaged, I would divert the energy not needed for shields (since shields don't work inside the nebula) into the Higgs field generators to reduce the ships mass even further from 1.2 million metric tons to something closer to 200,000 metirc tons or less. This might make the Abaddon more maneuverable than the Klingon dreadnought which is the main ship Tattenen has to worry about since his armor would still protect him from any other ships not armed with an anti-proton beam. Now if the Klingons were smart they would have mounted their new weapon on a smaller, highly maneuverable ship (something akin to the Defiant) but I'm thinking the beam might take so much energy you would need a larger vessel's powerplant to operate it. Also I can't see the Klingons building a small dreadnought to combat something the size of the Abaddon; it just doesn't seem to fit their design ethos IMO. So now you have a wounded but still operational Abaddon with reduced mass taking on a potentially larger and less maneuverable opponent, not to mention whatever other ships the Klingons send into the fray. Assuming the Abaddon could still cloak she would have the advantage and we know that Tattenen is a master tactician. He would also be the only ship with neutronium armor. Without a cloak the best tactician would probably win and that would probably give Tattenen the edge; then again, we have no idea who he would be up against on the Klingon side. If he were able to outmaneuver his opponent it would only take one shot to a vital area for him to disable or destroy the Klingon dreadnought operating with no shields and only standard Klingon hull plating. The other ships in the Klingon task force could then be dealt rather quickly. This is just one scenario of course and assumes the Abaddon went into the nebula alone which I think doubtful considering her value to the fleet.

Side note: Something I haven't mentioned until now is that the Abaddon can actually reconfigure the warp field to operate using only the center warp engine should either or both of the outboard nacelles be rendered inoperative. Conversely, should the center nacelle be damaged she can run at warp using her two outboard nacelles. So, in a fight where one nacelle is hit, her crew can restore warp capability within a matter of a few minutes. This also holds true for instances where saucer separation is necessary so both the secondary hull and saucer can operate independently yet each can still attain warp speeds assuming all three nacelles are in good working order.
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby Moongrim » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:19 pm

But the question remains- if one nacelle is lost- does the ship have enough power left to maintain the higgs boson field? Sounds like such a field would be a major power consumer; a similar problem for cloaking devices on Klingon ships.

And then there is the matter of the non-neutronium covered spots on the ship. Such as the Impulse exhaust, bussard collectors, the portholes, transporter grids, the maneuvering thrusters, and perhaps even the navigational deflector?

For what makes the neutronium so powerful as to prevent high gauss beam weaponry from penetrating it would also prevent less gauss level energy fields such as scanning fields from getting out?
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby trekriffic » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:39 am

Moongrim,

Thank you so much for your post. :thumbsup: I had been wondering when someone would point out these potential weaknesses. My answers below were actually formulating for awhile in my noggin waiting for the day someone rose to "ask the question" so to speak...

Moongrim wrote:But the question remains- if one nacelle is lost- does the ship have enough power left to maintain the higgs boson field? Sounds like such a field would be a major power consumer; a similar problem for cloaking devices on Klingon ships.

The nacelles are not so much energy producers as energy consumers. The dual warp cores in the Abaddon generate the energy used by her nacelles. Losing a nacelle actually increases the energy available for other systems.

Moongrim wrote:And then there is the matter of the non-neutronium covered spots on the ship. Such as the Impulse exhaust, bussard collectors, the portholes, transporter grids, the maneuvering thrusters, and perhaps even the navigational deflector?

The designers of the Abaddon had enough foresight to account for these potential "chinks" in her armor by designing specialized "shutters" that automatically deploy in the event the ship's shields fail. I refer to them as "shutters" which loosely describes their function. Details on their construction is highly classified of course.

Moongrim wrote:For what makes the neutronium so powerful as to prevent high gauss beam weaponry from penetrating it would also prevent less gauss level energy fields such as scanning fields from getting out?

True. For that reason, sensors, transporter emitters, and other lower level gauss emitter pads are located in recesses in the ships hull so as not to be covered by the ships carbon-neutronium composite armor. During combat with shields down these would be covered by the "shutters" mentioned previously. Ship's sensors, in particular are critical during battle so there are several sensor pads scattered across the hull; they are never all covered at the same time so, during combat, the ship will continually rotate which shutters are active at any particular point in time so as not to leave the ship "blind" to attack.
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby slawton » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:01 pm

I could imagine newer Klingons (TNG & later) would not run from a "fair fight" -- they would battle it out with their best ship(s) for glory or an honorable death.

The older "despicable" Klingons would prefer a "fixed match", resorting to trickery, sabotage, brutality, etc. -- anything to give them an advantage. I could picture a captured freighter issuing a distress call (similar to "Friday's Child"), sending it on a wild-goose chase or possibly transporting over lethal poison, deadly biological agent, explosive device, saboteur(s), etc. Or they could infiltrate it with a spy (like the grain poisoner in "The Trouble with Tribbles") who might rig it to self-destruct, overload (like in "Elaan of Troyius"), warp core explosion, render it board-able/capture-able, etc. They may demand its surrender (like in "Day of the Dove") or suffer the merciless death of crew, colony, planet, etc.

Other thoughts that come to mind are to trap it (Tholian Web, tractor beams, warp field inhibitor, sub-space jammer, stasis field, etc.), minimize its impact (spread out forces - it can only defeat one ship at a time spaced far apart), solicit help (the combined strength of the Romulans, Klingons, possibly others would overwhelm the Federation even with localized victories by the Overkill -- err, I mean Abaddon), simply cloak/flee when it arrives or like in TNG "Booby Trap" drain its power while exposing the crew to lethal radiation. Virtually anything but trying to slug it out (playing to the strength of the Abaddon).
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby trekriffic » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:52 pm

Great post slawton! You've obviously out some thought into your reply.

Let me respond to each of your ideas separately...

slawton wrote:I could imagine newer Klingons (TNG & later) would not run from a "fair fight" -- they would battle it out with their best ship(s) for glory or an honorable death.


I concur. TNG era Klingon honor would demand they fight honorably with no quarter given.

slawton wrote:The older "despicable" Klingons would prefer a "fixed match", resorting to trickery, sabotage, brutality, etc. -- anything to give them an advantage.


Yes, I would agree with this assessment of the "classic" TOS Klingon mindset.

slawton wrote:I could picture a captured freighter issuing a distress call (similar to "Friday's Child"), sending it on a wild-goose chase or possibly transporting over lethal poison, deadly biological agent, explosive device, saboteur(s), etc.


That might work with an ordinary starship with shields down but the extreme density of the Abaddon's neutronium armor would block any external transporter beam from penetrating her hull even with shields down.

slawton wrote:Or they could infiltrate it with a spy (like the grain poisoner in "The Trouble with Tribbles") who might rig it to self-destruct, overload (like in "Elaan of Troyius"), warp core explosion, render it board-able/capture-able, etc. They may demand its surrender (like in "Day of the Dove") or suffer the merciless death of crew, colony, planet, etc.


Certainly the Abaddon would need to employ a comparatively large onboard security force to protect vital areas from intruders. You might even have really critical mechanisms protected by forcefields. Multiple, redundant failsafe systems would also be employed to ensure swift failover in the event of a system failure.

slawton wrote:Other thoughts that come to mind are to trap it (Tholian Web, tractor beams, warp field inhibitor, sub-space jammer, stasis field, etc.)


Interesting ideas. Tholian web spinner filaments are strong but could they withstand the force of the Abaddon's anti-proton beam? And would stasis fields and warp field inhibitors even work against a ship with neutronium armor and triple redundant regenerative shielding? Hard to say.

Sub-space jammers I assume would inhibit the Abaddon's ability to communicate, so no messages to or from starfleet command to, for example, warn her of an impending attack or from the Abaddon to request assistance. I'm assuming such a device would reside aboard an enemy vessel (or vessels) so one solution I could see would be for the Abbie to identify the source of the interference and eliminate it. She might also have countermeasures as yet not revealed (potentially derived from studies of the surviving subspace jammer systems aboard the Doomsday Machine) for mitigating the threat posed by such technology.

Now tractor beams might be able to lock on but any attempts to tow the dreadnought would require an enormous energy expenditure, especially if her crew lowers the field strength of her Higgs field generators thus allowing the ship to reach its actual mass of several billion metric tons. Maybe if you had several ships acting in concert and locking on multiple tractor beams you could get her to budge but they'd have to be close enough to lock on and then stay close enough to maintain the lock which would be suicidal considering the lethality of the dreadnought's weaponry.


slawton wrote:Minimize its impact (spread out forces - it can only defeat one ship at a time spaced far apart), solicit help (the combined strength of the Romulans, Klingons, possibly others would overwhelm the Federation even with localized victories by the Overkill -- err, I mean Abaddon)


OK. Yes. she is only one ship but her captain is a master tactician and strategist armed with an advanced targeting sensor system capable of firing on and destroying multiple targets at once from great distances. The ultimate range of her mega-phasers and anti-proton beam emitters (and don't forget her photon torpedoes) is classified of course but it is considerably greater than anything the Klingons would be prepared for, at least until they've seen her in action a few times. In addition to this, and something I've not mentioned previously, she has a number of one and two man fighters that can be launched into the fray from her main shuttle bay as well as the two auxiliary bays located either side of her aft saucer rim.
As far as the rest of starfleet being overwhelmed by the combined might of enemy forces, well, that has always been a threat with or without the existence of ships like the Abaddon which is why starfleet high command commissioned the construction of 6 more Goliath class dreadnoughts to be deployed over the course of the next several years. Can you imagine if each Federation battlegroup had a "super" dreadnought to act as its own "berserker"?


slawton wrote:Simply cloak/flee when it arrives


That's always an option I suppose but not very Klingon-like. I could definitely see the Romulans running if they knew what they were up against though.

slawton wrote:or like in TNG "Booby Trap" drain its power while exposing the crew to lethal radiation.


Again, that might not work against the Abaddon's shields and armor.

So the exercise continues with no clearcut answers as so much of this is pure conjecture on our parts.
One thing we can say with a high degree of certainty is that the conventional approaches wouldn't work against this ship.
So the only other option would be the unconventional methods of attack of which you have given us plenty to think about.
It's fun to consider the various scenarios.
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby Moongrim » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:22 pm

As to luring the ship into a Nebula- TOS Klingons would probably 'take prisoners' after raiding a colony and make a big show to those they leave behind about taking their women and children and selling them to the Orions. Would the Master Technician turn away from such a scenario?
Marvelous accoutrements indeed, you've got
A vast array of fighter craft.
Relocated where in the ship though?
You don't have a through deck ship.
Supposedly superior in many regards-but even the toughest ship can be cracked.
Unstoppable it may be through technowizardry, but
Even the Enterprise didn't have so many gadgets.
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Re: Dreadnought USS Abaddon -Finished Pics and Video!

Postby trekriffic » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:54 pm

Moongrim wrote:As to luring the ship into a Nebula- TOS Klingons would probably 'take prisoners' after raiding a colony and make a big show to those they leave behind about taking their women and children and selling them to the Orions. Would the Master Technician turn away from such a scenario?
Marvelous accoutrements indeed, you've got
A vast array of fighter craft.
Relocated where in the ship though?
You don't have a through deck ship.
Supposedly superior in many regards-but even the toughest ship can be cracked.
Unstoppable it may be through technowizardry, but
Even the Enterprise didn't have so many gadgets.


No, I don't think Tatenen would refuse to enter the nebula if he had confirmation that Federation citizens were in danger.
As far as a "vast array" of fighter craft I never indicated she carried a "vast array", the actual number is twelve light one man and four two-man heavy fighters. The light fighters have phasers only whereas the heavies carry up to four photon torpedoes in addition to phasers. The light fighters launch from the twin bays on the saucer rim and the heavies from the main shuttlebay in the secondary hull. The ship is not a carrier so, no, she is not a thru deck ship but is there something in canon that says you need a thru-deck ship to carry fighters?
As far as being invulnerable to attack, no, I concede that, given sufficient time and resources, any defense based on "technowizardry" can be breached by new and better "technowizardry". And if an enemy were able to enlist the support of true "wizardry" beings (like the Q or, say, a malevolent version of the Organians) then all bets are off of course.
As far as having more gadgets than the Enterprise, I love the Enterprise but, well, this is a new ship designed for battle using Doomsday Machine and Romulan technology so, yes, she has more gadgets than the Enterprise. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.
So to sum things up, the Abaddon is formidable in many respects but any assertions I may have made that she is virtually invulnerable to attack are, of course, insupportable in the sense that we have no way of accounting for technology yet to be developed or encountered that could harm her. The case of the destruction of the Goliath itself, the class ship, lends further weight to this conclusion.
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