So, Trump. What now?

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el gato
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby el gato » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:52 pm

The Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare, is not health insurance. Obamacare is a series of regulations that govern the healthcare marketplace. Health insurance companies, private health insurance companies (most of them large, for profit health insurance companies), still rule the health care delivery system in the United States.

If your friends can't afford certain types of medical procedures it's not because of Obamacare. It's because health insurance companies choose not to make it affordable. There used to be more robust cost control measures in the ACA when first drafted that could have helped your friends but the Republicans objected. It was taken out by the final draft passed by Congress.

To your question Greyrider, Moongrim's daughter was able to get coverage because one of the regulations under Obamacare states health insurance companies can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions. That's a regulation that insurance companies object to because they say it's too costly.

When Republicans say they want to "repeal and replace" they're never specific on what that means. They've had 6 years now to come up with a "better" system. Well, where is it? To me they should put up or shut up.
RogueWolf wrote:I've sacrificed many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of gummy bears to the dark modeling gods to grant me my wish... but I fear my offerings only amuse them, not appease them.

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Moongrim
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Moongrim » Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:34 pm

Greyryder wrote:
Moongrim wrote:I feel that many of us in the United States will go the way that so many did in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's.

Under Obamacare, my special needs daughter's lifesaving medical care costs were allowed to continue under my medical insurance.
Trump and the Republicans have vowed to eliminate Obamacare.

In short- I will probably get to watch her die because of a lack of medical coverage. This is what Compassionate Conservatism has to offer.


I don't know about Trump's plans, but the GOP in general, don't want to take care away from people like your daughter. They just want to reverse the damage that's been done to so many other people. A lot of people have found themselves paying more, to get less health care, because of Obamacare.

The Republicans have been trying to keep the better parts of Obamacare, and get rid of the problem areas. For the vast majority of people, healthcare prices have gone up. I know at least one person who has been forced to turn to the gray market to get the life saving medicine that he needs, because he can no longer afford it, under Obamacare. I know a woman, who's son's teeth are so badly crowded, it's causing him severe pain. The braces he needs are going to cost thousands of dollars her family doesn't have, because Obamacare won't cover it.

For the record, I have asthma, that is becoming increasingly difficult to control. Without medicine, I'm dead. I am no fan, of what the Democrats have passed off as health care reform.

Though, I am curious. You said her care was allowed to continue under Obamacare. So, you were able to ger her this care, before the "reform?" Why would it suddenly stop, if that reform was repealed?


I was allowed to keep her on my plan till she hit 25, the maximum allowable age under the old system. Obamacare allowed her to stay there so long as I continued to pay into it. Mine isn't the best- but it's better than what she was facing before Obamacare came along. HMO's. A young lady with several preexisting conditions.

It was several months in between her 25th birthday and before Obamacare kicked in, she worsened something fierce. It's only in the last few weeks that she's 'roughly' feeling as well as she was before her 25th birthday. There was on instance I thought for sure I was going to be spreading her ashes...
It's expensive having her on it- but she's my daughter. I'd give away my entire collection of Models, made and unmade- and never make another again- if it meant she lived.

I also know of many folks whose lives have improved under Obamacare. I have a cousin who FINALLY checked in with a Doc concerning a minor problem- and discovered that it was a Squamous mole- Pre- and well on it's way to cancerous. He did so because he now had health insurance.

Yes Obama care has it's problems. I had hopes that Hillary would work to improve it, but now I see Senator Mitch McConnell has vowed to have a bill repealing Obamacare on "HIS" desk by February.
There are Times, Sir, when men of good Conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but ignore their personal liberties and freedoms. Order a man to hand over his child to the state? Not while I"m captain.
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NCC1966
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby NCC1966 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:41 pm

Moongrim wrote:There was on instance I thought for sure I was going to be spreading her ashes...

I know that it's hard, but try not be so pessimistic. You are talking as if your daughter had a death sentence and I am sure that deep in your hear you really don't think so, otherwise you wouldn't be fighting for her. While there is life there is hope and regardless the severity of her condition no one can affirm that she won't survive to you. Also, who knows if Trump won't end being a hell of a good President and do for the American people too much more than his predecessors? And I am NOT being sarcastic.

:)
Thanks,

Yan.

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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Scotchyn » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:53 pm

I know i can trust ya'll to keep it civil(and it has too this point) this has been the most contentious election of my lifetime(36 years old) so emotions are running high...in a couple weeks though..i feel like most things will basically return to normal..at the end of the day no matter who is President...it all still has to go through Congress/Supreme Court etc. What im just so sick of his the name calling taunting and over exaggeration of issues from both Left and Right.....24hr news cycles that behave more like tabloids than news and social media...and it seems to me both candidates did nothing but campaign to the extremes in both their parties, which is where the majority of this negative crap comes from.

I was no Obama supporter, but i never even once hated him, just disagreed w/his policies..and some things he did, i did agree with.

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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Hossfly72 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:50 am

I'll state right up front that I'm a conservative, but I don't identify as republican anymore. And I'm in just about the same boat as Moongrim. My wife and I got married in March of 2007 and my 11 year old step daughter was diagnosed with a stage 3/4 Multiforma Glioblastoma brain tumor in October of 2007. The doctors said she would be lucky to see her 12th birthday. She kicked it's ass and they have no idea how it disappeared, but she also had a benign liver tumor the size of a cantelope and surgery to remove that. A couple years later she was struck with colon cancer and now has a colostomy bag. But she turned 20 in July and continues to thrive against all odds.
In 2009 my wife suffered a dissected aorta that went undiagnosed for two weeks. Emergency surgery and four more surgeries through the years and her x-rays look like she swallowed a fire hose due to the stints.
The ONLY reason we aren't bankrupt is because of Obamacare doing away with the lifetime insurance cap of 1 million dollars. Both are well over that cap. The fact that this may change has me terrified, but even if it does change, we will make it somehow. Generally I'm against Obamacare because it has driven out private companies and all competition. If insurance companies could sell in every state, and customers could pick and choose the coverage they needed, and there was true competition; I know prices would come down. Doesn't mean I'm not still terrified, but it's a hope I cling to.
As for Hillary, I trust her completely, to do the wrong thing and carry this country toward nothing but dependance on government. All I need to government to do is get out of the way of business, and put in safeguards and penalties against unethical business practices and collusion. Lots of discussion about how to do that fairly, but ya gotta have hope.
I trust you guys voted the way you saw fit for your beliefs and needs. And I realize I'm probably somewhat out of place in this world, but I promise I'm not a racist, hateful, bigoted, egotistical, arragant, xenophobic, !!!!!!!! like the Facebook memes claim. Well, I might be a bit of an !!!!!!!!, but only when I drive in rush hour traffic.

PS- Hey! Did you know the forum blocks it out when you type !!!!!!!!? Er,uh, a##hole?
i don't know. I'm making it up as I go.

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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Moongrim » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:48 pm

I wish you the best of luck Hossfly with you and yours.

I'd just say one more thing and let it go: the problem with the government not interfering with the insurance companies- is that you end up with a situation where it demands interference.

I mean c'mon. If we could trust folks to keep their word, there'd not be governments.

Ok, I've said my piece. I'll shut up now.
There are Times, Sir, when men of good Conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but ignore their personal liberties and freedoms. Order a man to hand over his child to the state? Not while I"m captain.
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Hossfly72 » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:24 am

100% agreement, Moongrim... that's why I'm still terrified.
i don't know. I'm making it up as I go.

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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Peregrinus » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:53 pm

@el gato, up at the top of this page, got it in one. Obama started out wanting universal, single-payer (i.e., government) health care -- like the vast majority of the world, most notably those with the highest quality of life (note: the US is very much not at or near the top of that list). Those are also the country's with the highest taxes. No one likes taxes, but they're the ticket to ride if you want civilization. Also, in those countries, more of the tax load is on those who can afford it, rather than the measly 30-odd per cent the wealthiest Americans pay -- when they pay at all, instead of finding ways to dodge doing so.

Because of all the concessions Obama made to try to get more Congressional support from Republicans, it got whittled away until it was only a mild set of regulations for the immensely-profitable health-insurance industry. As such, from the get-go, I have refused to call it "Obamacare". It ain't what he wanted. If I call it anything other than the Affordable (hah!) Care Act, I call it Republicare. They can talk about changing it now, but 1) they got exactly what they wanted the first time, as Obama was willing to concede almost the entire farm to get their support, and 2) the changes being discussed will make it worse. The phrase that keeps floating around is "Healthcare Savings Account". You might have heard it. What this means is a chunk of the individual's income that gets set aside in an account that can only be used for medical costs. It is not the same as paying an insurance premium. If the amount in the account is not enough to cover what you need, there is no recourse beyond that. As someone with a pre-existing condition that requires frequent check-ups and blood tests, as well as daily medication that is not cheap, like @moongrim's daughter, I am facing a grim several years.

Unlike many people, I am not surprised. I am dismayed and worried, but not surprised. We knew during the run-up to the primaries -- if the last couple decades weren't enough. Everyone is sick of establishment politics and establishment politicians. We could see it in Trump and Sanders polling better than any of the others running. When DNC shenanigans caused Clinton to be the nominee, I knew it was going to be close... I was not expecting nearly have of the electorate to stay silent on the matter. Here's the thing: Trump does not have the mandate of the people. He got the support of one-third of the eligible voters in this country. Of the other two-thirds, over half didn't vote at all. Which means they didn't support Trump, as all of his supporters voted. Even non-Trump-supporters who vehemently did not want Clinton elected voted for Trump.

And, further, many of the people who voted for Trump are good people who either are easily gulled and believed his often-contradictory, always unsupported campaign promises; or are so sick of "insider" politicians that burning down the house around us is better than continuing to limp along as we have been this last half-century. Despite what the media has been showing us to garner ratings with sensationalism, only a very vocal few (thousands, at the most, out of a country of over three hundred million) are white supremacists, asshat man-child dude-bros, ignorant sociopaths, or the other folks who have been acting out this past week.

Socio-econo-politically, I identify as a Progressive Socialist Heinleinian Libertarian. That's a mouthful, I know. Means I believe people should be utterly free to live their lives as they see fit... up until it impacts the life of another person. Then there need to be rules to facilitate that interaction -- legislating against human nature, which, when left to its own devices, is to game the system to one's own advantage and to hell with anyone else. Anything beyond that is learned behavior. And the more people there are, the higher population pressure gets, the more rules are necessary. I have studied a lot, and it has led me though several no-brainer insights* to this conclusion: To best take care of myself, I need to do what I can to take care of everyone else. As the whole thrives or suffers, so, too, do I. We are long past the point that a person can strike out into the wilderness to make something of themselves doing whatever they want. Too many of us now, having too much of an impact.

[*Like the one in my early 20s when I was able to internalize that other people are other people -- each with their own lives and distractions and hopes and goals and things they need to do and such. Not shadow players here for my convenience or amusement. Seems basic, but a lot of people never seem to get that.]

In the face of this election, things like this gives me some hope. People like him and me are comfortably in the reasonable 60% straddling the middle of the range. It's only the 20% at extreme left and 20% at extreme right that tend to be a bit unhinged. Whether it's PETA or the NRA, Sea Shepherds or the KKK. The future is forward. Regardless of what the base-est of Trump's base do between now and inauguration, regardless of whether Trump is even able to take office due to various legal issues, regardless of what Trump or Pence or the Republican Congressional simple majority sets out to do, I have faith in actual Americans to not let anyone take away the rights that have been fought so hard for over the course of this national experiment. There are always going to be people so conservative they wouldn't change their underwear if they didn't have to, who are so afraid of change and the unknown it represents they will drag us backwards to where it's known and safe -- no matter how awful it might have been for people in that state of affairs.

Don't let them.

--Jonah

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Moongrim
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby Moongrim » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:05 pm

Update.

I was able to negotiate with my Medical Insurance Provider- my daughter is now covered in my insurance for so long as I've got it. She's covered. That's one thing.

But the fact is- if they go through with their intentions- other folks will not be.

And I find that Deplorable. I guess I was under the impression that the Government is supposed to protect the weak from the strong- not protect the strong from the weak.

Silly me.
There are Times, Sir, when men of good Conscience cannot blindly follow orders. You acknowledge their sentience, but ignore their personal liberties and freedoms. Order a man to hand over his child to the state? Not while I"m captain.
- J.L.Picard.

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NCC1966
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Re: So, Trump. What now?

Postby NCC1966 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:40 pm

Moongrim wrote:I was able to negotiate with my Medical Insurance Provider- my daughter is now covered in my insurance for so long as I've got it. She's covered. That's one thing.

One thing that just occurred me... I don't know how it is there in USA but here in Brasil a new law cannot retract acquired rights. I am sure that the same principle is used there. So, if you have a previous agreement with your Medical Insurance where they ensured you that your daughter would be covered NO ONE law can take it from you. Unless that the agreement had an expiration date (that I doubt it's the case)

;)
Thanks,

Yan.


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