WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

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Steam235
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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Steam235 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:07 am

There was also a suspicion that it was given a cease and desist because it was crossing into qmx's business. And qmx asked for the c and d.

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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Moongrim » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:41 pm

Xen wrote:
Lonewolf wrote:If someone is advertising that they're going to produce an unlicensed model of the primary ship seen in multiple Star Trek movies, that's like waving a huge red flag in front of the studio's face, saying "Come and get me!". The smaller-scale kits don't clear much profit, and they're mostly of "guest" ships. But to make an unlicensed Enterprise in a large scale? That's just asking for it.


How has the JJPrise from Section 31 remained unscathed then? Does SM offer adequate protection from the suits? I wouldn't have thought so myself. It is odd how waves of anything Trek will get gunned down on places like Shapeways, whereas other sites and ships remain safe.

Tailgunner wrote:There is a member on AST who has stated they do in fact have a kit. Cannot remember his name at the moment though.

I did see one on ebay a while back but the seller wanted $2700.00 for it. So while I am willing to pay above original retail, $2700 is definitely out of the question.

I hope everyone will bear with me here on the continual bumping. This is probably my most sought after kit. I just really, really want one.


If someone does have the kit please be very careful if you plan on going ahead with a deal. AST takes no responsibility for bad deals (or dealers), but the community will always be willing to help with advice. Especially before you take the leap. Personally, I'd wait until R2 get to it. A styrene version is...inevitable (Mr. Anderson).

As for the bumping. Feel free to "bump" away. Take that however you like. :innocent:

Hopefully R2 will take up the baton and produce a 1K Ent-E. And a C & D as well. (perhaps that is what was meant eh? C&D models, not a Cease and Desist?) some of us 1K enthusiasts are just funny that way.
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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Moongrim » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:42 pm

Steam235 wrote:There was also a suspicion that it was given a cease and desist because it was crossing into qmx's business. And qmx asked for the c and d.


QMX?
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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Moongrim » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:48 pm

What i don't grok- The Whole C&D thing to begin with.

The 1K Enterprise E, was obviously something someone was willing to pay for. Instead of making someone stop, who went ahead and invested the time and effort to create such an item- why not just 'request' a proper % from the sales? Both parties get what they want. :?
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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Steam235 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:09 pm

but if QMX puts out a 1/1000 E they would charge thousands. Keeping the market for large sovereigns dry is the only way to charge that much. and even 20% of the $500 this was selling floor is peanuts compared to that.

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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby el gato » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:32 pm

Steam235 wrote:I"m afraid there was a more sinister theory thrown about..

http://the-grey-ghost.com/the-bad-side-sci-fi-modeling/

the short story. (an accusation not proven fact) Richard long was not mastering these but talking others into making the parts so he could have the models, and he would sell a few of them but never fully compensating the real model makers.


I read that too. When that hit the fan you started seeing REL post less and less. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Xen wrote:Personally, I'd wait until R2 get to it. A styrene version is...inevitable (Mr. Anderson).


Inevitable? Don't know about that. It's easier for R2 to repop the old 1400 offerings than invest in a new retool. Otherwise they're cannibalizing their own line. Then again, production on the 1400 D has stopped so it may be that's where they're heading.
RogueWolf wrote:I've sacrificed many dozens (maybe even hundreds) of gummy bears to the dark modeling gods to grant me my wish... but I fear my offerings only amuse them, not appease them.

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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Lonewolf » Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:56 pm

Xen wrote:
Lonewolf wrote:If someone is advertising that they're going to produce an unlicensed model of the primary ship seen in multiple Star Trek movies, that's like waving a huge red flag in front of the studio's face, saying "Come and get me!". The smaller-scale kits don't clear much profit, and they're mostly of "guest" ships. But to make an unlicensed Enterprise in a large scale? That's just asking for it.

How has the JJPrise from Section 31 remained unscathed then? Does SM offer adequate protection from the suits? I wouldn't have thought so myself. It is odd how waves of anything Trek will get gunned down on places like Shapeways, whereas other sites and ships remain safe.

Simple. If you look at the listing on Starship Modeler, it is not marketed at all as being the USS Enterprise. It's listed as a Constitution Mark II. We all know what it is, but if the legal beagles are searching for something that's using the trademarked/licensed name "USS Enterprise", it'll show up on searches. Who would think of searching for "Reconstituted", "JJPrise" or "Constitution Mark II". It's all a matter of tweaking something just enough to stay out of the limelight. Starship Modeler's listing doesn't include a single reference to the series or the ship name. Same with the decals that are being offered.

http://starshipmodeler.biz/shop/index.c ... n-mk-2.cfm

A kit that costs almost $500 and is clearly marketed as the USS Enterprise is going to attract legal attention because 1) it's using the name, and 2) a kit with a price that high is enough to make studios think of profits. Sell 50 of the kits and you're starting to talk about serious cash ($25,000).

There's also one heck of a difference between a garage kit that's selling for $50, and one that's selling for $500. The smaller kit will still be "illegal" in that it's not licensed, but you'd have to sell 100 times more of them to get to the same "money" level as the bigger kit.

That's why some manufacturers are selling only through direct contact and word-of-mouth. There's nothing out there to link them to an item that's being produced without being licensed.

Why do you think so many garage kit companies change the names of their products just enough to stay away from searches? Rebel Runner? Squid Transport? Angelfish Cruiser? Constitution Mark II? We know what they are, but they're not things that legal departments would think of searching for.

Studios don't want just a percentage of the profits from the sales of the kits. They want thousands of dollars in licensing fees for granting their permission to holders for use of the names/designs/etc. Later, when the products get to market, the studios want a percentage of the profits.

Intellectual property law is very fluid, and it all depends on who decides to enforce their rights and to what extent they decide to go. I worked on a case where a software company tried to claim that a program that an employee developed during his time off was actually their property because he was contracted for "all work produced". The court said his personal time was his own, and the company didn't have any right to ownership of things he'd done on his own time, away from the office, and on his own personal computer. They appealed, and promptly lost again.

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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Xen » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:28 pm

Lonewolf wrote:Simple. If you look at the listing on Starship Modeler, it is not marketed at all as being the USS Enterprise. It's listed as a Constitution Mark II. We all know what it is, but if the legal beagles are searching for something that's using the trademarked/licensed name "USS Enterprise", it'll show up on searches. Who would think of searching for "Reconstituted", "JJPrise" or "Constitution Mark II". It's all a matter of tweaking something just enough to stay out of the limelight. Starship Modeler's listing doesn't include a single reference to the series or the ship name.


Then why were all the discreetly named products on SW taken out? Including parts like nacelles. They make peanuts, yet get blasted. NUTrek seems to carry the most risk. Although GK'ers for gaming certainly seem to get whacked more often than GK'ers for scale models.

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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Lonewolf » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:59 pm

My guess would be that because Shapeways actually produces the items being ordered as opposed to offering them as a marketer only, they are watched more closely. With the large amounts of cash involved in certain franchises, I'm willing to bet there are people whose only job is to browse the SW website and look for items that vaguely resemble something from particular franchises.

In law, the liability trail goes back to the individual/legal entity that produces the actual physical item.

----------------------------------------------------
Example:

If I design a Widget that's based directly on a pattern seen on a popular TV show, and I sell that through SW, it's still SW that's doing the actual production work. Yes, it's my Widget pattern, but it's SW's physical machinery that's producing the end product. They would be the ones who would be told to cease production. Without SW's production equipment, my pattern is just a pattern, without the ability to produce it as anything other than a computer design. Any "cease and desist" order would impact SW because they're the producers.

If I design the Widget, produce the Widgets myself in my garage workshop, and sell them through someplace like the SSM Store, the SSM Store has no liability because they're just a marketer. Sure, they can tell me to take a hike and not offer to sell my Widgets any more, but they are not personally liable because they have no control over the design and production. All the studio can do is ask the SSM Store to stop carrying my Widgets. A "cease and desist" order carries no weight because SSM doesn't physically produce the items.
---------------------------------------------------------

In SW's case, if there are enough issues over a period of time, with one "designer" continually trying to skirt around the restrictions, it might end up with SW banning that "designer". If SW gets slapped by the studio for producing things from Trek, and there are certain designers who design and offer nothing but Trek, then it's in SW's best interest to shut those designers down. Otherwise, SW may find itself in a work of legal hurt.

The studios might also be in a position to say to SW "Hey, we reviewed your website and found 2,000 potential copyright infringement violations. Here are the URLs to the items in violation. You have a choice - either pull the items, or be fined $10,000 per violation." It's a no-brainer at that point. Pull the items, or fork over more money in fines than your website is capable of making in six months. "Sorry John Q. Designer, your nacelle violates copyright laws and we're pulling your product. Have a nice day."
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Re: WTB: 1/1000 Enterprise-E from Titan Models

Postby Xen » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:30 pm

A point well made. It's still sad when the little fellas get whacked though. Anyway, back to the Titan 1k E. :innocent:


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