USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby SKO » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:50 pm

MadManMUC wrote:
patrickivan wrote:The entire arc about the spore drive is needless and stupid. Of all things they could come up with.


What bothers me the most isn't so much that they're trying to power their ship with mushrooms (which, I'll grant, is dumber than dumb). It's that the entire idea of the tardigrade/new propulsion system is directly ripped off from Voyager: helpless creature being tortured for Starfleet's benefit, and people are surprised it's not happy about it. Really. If this is the best this writing team can do, I'd be happier if they simply cancel the show now, and never bring a new Trek series to TV again.

And, to be honest, the execution of the idea is vastly superior on 'Equinox P1 & 2' than it was on this turd last week.


Also unless they completely blowtorch canon you know they're not going to end up keeping it at all or modifying it so it works without requiring torture. So many problems with this show could be settled by setting it 50 years post-Nemesis. Sooo many.

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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby patrickivan » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:07 pm

Thoughts on Sunday's episode?

Overall, I liked this one most so far.

With the caveats.

The Klingon D-7... Why even call it that? Seriously? If you're rebooting, than just !!!!!!!! do it and call it something else.

And those HORRIBLE Klingon fighters. Ugh. Peacocks. They're modelled off of bloody Peacocks. What peadicks thought this was a good design?

Damnit- I want to like this show, but they're making it so bloody hard.

There were some elements that were Star Trek and I appreciate that effort.

For the love of all that is good in the universe, stop the flippity floppity ship tripping out instantly anywhere in the galaxy though! Ugh.

I'm guessing it was conceived of for one reason and one alone. No one has the patience. It's an instant gratification affectation as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby MadManMUC » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:55 pm

My thoughts (and they're strong):

It boggles the mind to understand how some of these people even managed to graduate from Starfleet Academy, let alone not get court-martialled. There are reasons even Archer was on the list of most-decorated Starfleet captains that Saru brought up:


  • He would never, ever, ever have escaped his ship and killed his entire crew, ostensibly to prevent Klingon capture. He would have stayed aboard, fought side-by-side with his crew and, if worse came to absolute worse, would have self-destructed his ship with himself aboard. So would have Kirk. So would have Picard. And Sisko. And Janeway. But Lorca? Oh, no, no. He killed however many people were aboard his old ship, and gets rewarded for it with a new command. What. The. F*ck. I found this far more f*cking shocking that hearing the word 'f*ck'. Sadly, it wouldn't be the first shock I had this episode.
  • Archer would never have ordered his crew to continue torturing a life form. Saru's orders were beyond shocking. He doesn't even deserve to be able to briefly cast a gaze on the uniform he's wearing. And all of this because he was secretly jealous of Burnham? He's absolutely unfit for Starfleet service. At least, the Starfleet I thought I knew and admired. Apparently, this Starfleet we've got now is only worth utter contempt. Ask Janeway about how to deal with Starfleet officers who behave like this.
  • Similarly, Starfleet wanting to round up as many tardigrades as possible to make The Mushroom Drive™ available on all Starfleet vessels? Good god, this is shocking. Yes, let's use living creatures to make our starships go, against their will! That's the Starfleet way, apparently! F*ck me ...
  • Archer, Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway — even if they didn't like the guy — would have never, ever left a human (or, indeed, any Federation member race) civilian to languish as a prisoner aboard a Klingon vessel (D7?! I don't f*cking think so.) to be tortured, even during wartime. Even if said civilian had sold them out. That civilian would have been rescued, then brought to justice. Disgusting, and further evidence of this show's overall moral bankruptcy.
  • And to top it all off, Archer & Co would have never have dignified or validated Saru's command decisions like f*cking Burnham did by telling him he did well. No, no, he did not do f*cking well. He was being a precious little princess who let his jealousy influence his command ability and he — as far as I'm concerned — committed a war crime by ordering the continued torture and slavery of the tardigrade. If this is Burnham's definition of 'doing well', the human race is in big f*cking trouble in the 23rd century.

I can't believe how loathesome this show is. Dreadful. And just by virtue of the above points alone (never minding all of the canon violations, bad writing, etc) Discovery is absolutely unworthy of having the name Star Trek attached to it.

Star Trek is far, far better than this. What a f*cking disgrace.

God damn. I never thought I'd ever find myself extolling Jonathan Archer's virtues. I hated that show, too.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby patrickivan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm

MadManMUC you make some great points. Particularly using ST: Enterprise as a reference for earlier morals.

First off, it's funny. I never cared for ST:E and it's the only series I've only seen once. But I started watching it this past summer, I think out of a craving to watch some Star Trek I had no real recollection of. And I have to say, I'm enjoying it far more now than when it aired.

I like Archer's character more... And mostly because he's new to this kind of exploration, so his flaws are more forgivable. But his morals are strong, and that's also admirable.

Discovery does seem to be lacking that very essence of morality that made Star Trek, Star Trek....

And honestly. What is it that made us all fans, that fans seem to crave the kind of hatred and click bait instant gratification that Discovery is? It is perplexing.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby trekriffic » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:09 pm

Discovery certainly doesn't sound like the Star Trek I grew up with.

Maybe it's meant for the Next Generation- an immoral, narcissistic, more violent one.

Sad.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby trekriffic » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Double post. Sorry.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby patrickivan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:03 pm

I don't know if I'd agree with this generation being more violent.

Our history is ripe with horrendous violence. Religious / Political crusades created by those in power to hang onto their power. Armies sacking towns/ cities, that included mass rape and murder. Misinformation and ignorance due to lack of ability to communicate. Science kept in hindered due to the same inability to corroborate and grow through peer review.

No, the type of potential for mass violence is far stronger than in the past, but I'd never say we're more violent as a whole.

A by product of instant communication with others and media, and the ability to have almost anything we want immediately, has led to a generation of people addicted to getting what they want when they want it.

But, I don't want to say all are like that, because they aren't. And it's every aging generation's battle cry: the youth today... Hell, there was a time when Chess was the new fad played by the young, and frowned upon by the older.

Baby steps towards the better. Or the world goes Kablammy...
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby slawton » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:16 pm

"Star Trek: Discovery" — CBS All Access
Critic score: 86%
Audience score: 60%
Description: Ten years before Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise, the USS Discovery discovers new worlds and lifeforms as one Starfleet officer learns to understand all things alien.


Well, generally the critics tend to view the show favorably. I only watched the first episode and did not pony $$ up for CBS all access. I did not like the cliffhanger trick to get you to bite, so I have limited exposure.

I did not like the walk to draw a logo (eye-roll), the Klingon ships, the fact that all the ships showed up at exactly the same time (a random build up makes more sense), not the over-busy asteroids (not realistic). I did like the overall production values, the visuals, attempt to develop character/backstory, etc. So what do you guys see as positives?

Un-starfleety behavior was seen in TOS, TNG, etc., so that should not be completely unexpected. Certainly all of the series had their flaws/peculiarities. TOS campiness, TAS silliness, etc. Is this show going through growing pains (most of the others started of slowly before coming into their own)? Would you rather have this or no Trek at all?
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby MadManMUC » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:19 pm

slawton wrote:Un-starfleety behavior was seen in TOS, TNG, etc


This is true, but that behaviour — when we saw it — was the exception, not the rule. With STD, it's the reverse, and it's really, really depressing to watch.

slawton wrote: Would you rather have this or no Trek at all?


Err ... honestly? No Trek at all, if this is the best Alex 'I wish this was Kelvinverse' Kurzman can do.
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Re: USS DISCOVERY vs TOS E THOUGHTS

Postby trekriffic » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:34 pm

slawton wrote: Would you rather have this or no Trek at all?


I confess I have not seen any other episodes other than the premier but if everything I've been reading hear is accurate I would prefer no new Trek at all. Roddenberry would be rolling in his grave if he knew what others have done to his vision.
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